idog
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1st. Post..Need Help

Thu Jan 08, 2009 00:19

Hello this is my first post. I really have enjoyed reading this forum.

I have just started a project, trying to do a time line history on my grandfathers WW2 service. He was a medical doctor in Europe. When I was younger, I did a report and remember him saying he was in Patton's 3rd. However, my family has sent me scans of the patches he wore and they are from the 11Th Armored and the second is a #2.

Just trying to make sense of a few things. If I am able to identify which unit he was in, things should go pretty smooth. Soon I will have MS#'s and should be able to acquire some after action reports. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.
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Ben
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Thu Jan 08, 2009 00:27

Hello idog, and welcome to our Forum!

I hope that this site will be of use to you in determining more information about your Grandfather's service during WW2. The patch that you have listed here belongs to the United States Second Army.

I hope that this will be of some use to your project, and in case you should have any additional questions and queries, please don't hesitate to ask here!

Thanks,
Ben :)
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idog
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Thu Jan 08, 2009 00:34

Copy that, thanks. One of the problems I am having is that I can not find any Medical Units that were part of 11th ID, 2nd Army. I am confused.

Anyhow, hopefully soon I will be sent some photos that I think are pretty cool. If I remember correctly there are some of a cocentration camp that was liberated.

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Ben
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Thu Jan 08, 2009 01:02

idog,
The 11th Armored Division was indeed a subordinate unit of the Third US Army. I just wonder whether your Grandfather obtained this Second Army shoulder sleeve insignia somehow, perhaps from another serviceman?
Thanks,
Ben :)
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littlelotte
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Thu Jan 08, 2009 01:55

One of the problems I am having is that I can not find any Medical Units that were part of 11th ID, 2nd Army. I am confused.


11th ID would have been an Infantry Division, as noted by the ID in the unit name, if such an Infantry Division existed with that designation (Don't know much about regular leg Infantry).

The patch as Ben said is of the 2nd Army, however it is my understanding that this red/white coloring is of post WWII origin, as with the 1st Army. The only reason I believe this, is because all pictures I have of the unit I portray, shows the personnel wearing the subdued OD patch. I had a couple of vets tell me the red/white coloring is of post WWII origin.

Someone with more experience than me maybe able to clear it up. Welcome to the forum.

Sincerely,
-Lisa

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Ben
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Thu Jan 08, 2009 08:57

Hi Lisa,
There was no 11th Infantry Division during WW2 since the 11th Division was designated as the 11th Airborne Division (just as there was no 82d Infantry Division, or 101st Infantry Division).
Thanks,
Ben
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johan willaert
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Re: 1st. Post..Need Help

Thu Jan 08, 2009 13:13

idog wrote:the patches he wore and they are from the 11Th Armored and the second is a #2..


Topicstarter refers to the 11th ARMORED Division which was indeed part of the US 3rd Army in Europe.
Now depending on what sleeve the patches were worn, (if worn together) they will indicate previous service with a certain unit.

If he wore the 11AD patch on the right arm, while having the 2Army on the left shoulder, this will indicate he saw combat/service with the 11AD and was attached to a 2Army unit upon his return to the US.
The 2Army was basically a training and replacement Army supplying the fighting units with fresh men when needed... (putting it simple)

A picture of your relative in uniform showing the patches and medal ribbons could tell us much more.

Also Jon Gawne has written a very interesting book about how to find out what a certain person did during WW2.
Title is 'Finding Your Father's War'
http://www.fatherswar.org/

IMO the colored 2Army patch WAS worn during WW2, contrary to the colored 1Army patch which is indeed post WW2.

Johan
Last edited by johan willaert on Thu Jan 08, 2009 13:20, edited 1 time in total.
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Thu Jan 08, 2009 13:18

The main Medical unit of the 11th Armored Division was the 81st Armored Medical Battalion.
Typically an Armored Division duing WW2 was divided into three subunits capable of fighting on their own with their own support units. These were called Combat Commands (CC) A, B and Reserve.
Companies A, B and C of the 81st Armored Med Battalion were attached to CCA, CCB and CCReserve respectively.

http://www.11tharmoreddivision.com/hist ... alion.html

The 11AD Assn can be contacted here:
http://www.11tharmoreddivision.com/index.html

Maybe they have more info on your relative...

Johan
Last edited by johan willaert on Thu Jan 08, 2009 13:26, edited 1 time in total.
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Ben
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Thu Jan 08, 2009 13:25

Thanks for helping the topic starter Johan. I was going to suggest for him to purchase a copy of Jon Gawne's book, but it seems that you have beaten me to it. Also, thanks for pointing out the fact regarding the SSI, and as you say a photograph of idog's Grandfather in uniform would certainly be most useful indeed.

Thanks for providing us with the numerous links relating to the 81st Armored Medical Battalion too.

Regards,
Ben :D

P.S. I am also of the impression that the coloured version of the SUSA patch was indeed worn during WW2. I will check through my books and photographs when I get home later.
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littlelotte
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Thu Jan 08, 2009 17:20

Thanks Ben and Johan,
I was unsure of the 2nd Army colored insigna. I know that the 1st Army colored insignia was not used until late 1945, per my research, so I was just under the assumption it was the same. My husband told me the same thing after I posted about the 2nd Army insignia. My apologies, thanks for clearing it up for me.
-Lisa

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Tue Jan 13, 2009 20:26

Just had a talk with my uncle the other evening, and from the sounds of it there should be plenty of info to be found in several boxes of material that has been stowed for many years.

We are still unsure of the exact medical unit, but from what my uncle was told by my grandfather, he was one of the Dr.'s that performed physicals on prisoners at an unknown CC.

I do have a copy of the paperwork for a bronze star he was awarded, but will post it later when I can interperit the origianal. Very difficult to read on the computer, but there are many names of other medal recipients, some postumously.

idog
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Wed Jan 14, 2009 09:03

I decided not to post the letter concerning the medal recipients until I can figure out how to dedact the names of the service members. However, I was able to enlarge portions enough to make out some of the actions that were recognized. Total of members noted. 1 Silver and three Bronze.

Letter dated 25 June, 1945

From/Title: Headquarters 11th. Armored Division
APO 261, U.S. Army

The first is the Silver Star awarded postumously-

This is for a PFC
"Medical Detachment, 21st Armored Infantry Batt. 11th A.D. allantry in action on 22 Feb. 1945 while serving as a medic in the vicinity of (I think Luxemborg, but unlegible) XXXXXXX volunteered to go forward on foot 1200 yards while under enemy fire to treat 2 wounded men. XXXXXXX was killed by an enemy sniper while ( the rest is unlegible) There are several more sentances.

The rest are bronze stars

#1 Bronze is for "Technician XXX 4th grade from the 11th A.D." For actions 1 Jan., 1945 to 8 May, 1945.

#2 is my grandfather. "Capt. XXX Medical Corps, Headquarters Company, 11th A.D." 25 Dec., 1944 to 8 May, 1945.

#3 is a "Major XXX from Infantry, 37th Traffic Regulating Group, 3rd. Army." 23 Dec., 1944 to 20 April, 1945.

The last 3 gents, what is written is pretty much the same, w/o specifics other than, "meritourious service". Unfortunately w/o posting the letter it does not do this justice. When I finally see this in person I can elaborate more.

johan willaert
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Wed Jan 14, 2009 13:20

How do you expect someone to do serious research on a person when you're not even displaying his name?
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idog
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Wed Jan 14, 2009 19:41

I don't.

Perhaps I should have started a new thread. My concern is that there are names and MS #'s other than my family members and did not want to breach any issues that may bring. Until I can remove the names and #'s, this will have to suffice.

Pretty much just info only.

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