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MTO Ambulance markings

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 20:28
by jumpwings
Can anyone help me out with a detailed description of the MTO ambulance 3/4 ton?

There is a picture on another medic website, but not detailed dimensions etc...I know from pictures of the mountains around Majo December '43 etc, that the red crosses on the side, rear and top where smaller, how one can only guess by the picture, however, a clear cut vehicle markings would be real handy....

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 21:33
by sgtpeter
Hi Paul-

The Army Regulation (AR) you are looking for is AR 850-5 dated 5 Aug 1942. There was at least 10 updates published during the war. If you can't find or don't have the AR you can look here for info regarding size and type of vehicle markings including the red crosses.

Good luck!

Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 00:17
by Ben
Perhaps the following might be useful Paul:

Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 01:25
by jumpwings
Thanks for the replies and links guys...The MTO markings is my interest ....Just to let you know, I know zip about vehicle markings and wot, when, where, so forgive me if I ask silly questions and go here there ad everywhere....

The reason I got interested is for the obvious, I want to put the right markings on my ambulance for the MTO, particularly for the FSSF...I first noticed a diference with the following in Supercommandos, from a set of Capas photos when he went into the mountains around Radicosa area on 4th January 1944 on the preamble to Cassino:

Then came accross this one (unkown author) from Anzio (which in actual fact, could be British, but again, I could be wrong):

Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 01:26
by jumpwings
Also i have from the same set, an clearing station, with wot looks like arm bands taped to helmets, but will leave for another post/thread....

Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 02:25
by tractor
Those markings are 1/2 ton April 41 Markings
My rear doors aren't marked but that is similar to the way it should be

Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 08:56
by Ben
Here's the official regulation taken from AR 850-5:

Red Cross - Both sides of the body of an ambulance will be marked with a Geneva cross, bright red, on a snow-white field, the cross to be 18 inches in the horizontal and vertical dimensions and each limb to represent a 6-inch square. It will be located in the center of the middle or advertising panel of the panel. A Geneva cross on a snow-white field will be placed in the center of the top and on the outside. This cross will be of such size that the transverse arm will reach entirely across the top. On the visor, or directly above the windshield, will be marked in suitable size white letters, block style, the word AMBULANCE. On each side of the word AMBULANCE, will be placed a small bright-red Geneva cross on a white field, or two small red Geneva crosses may be placed on either side of the windshield in a location that will not interfere with the operator's vision. On the perpendicular center line of each of the rear doors, below the windows will be placed a 6-inch bright-red Geneva cross on an 8-inch white field. All lettering executed in white will be properly shaded to give depth.

I hope that the above will help,
Ben 8)

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 05:07
by 1942WC-54
In October 1943 the larger red crosses were adopted for new and repainted vehicles.

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 14:02
by jumpwings
1942WC-54 wrote:In October 1943 the larger red crosses were adopted for new and repainted vehicles.

Say I want to mark up for a January-June 1944 Italy vehicle, would I have to mark up as the new version, or would they have repainted their ambulances to the new spec immediately/by then?

Somehow, I think they would have left them as supply and demand would evntually replace the old, as with everything Army?

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 17:16
by sgtpeter
Hey Paul -

Based on your intent and other interests, I would recommend going with the smaller cross sizes. It would make an interesting part of your story to talk about the changes in marking sizes. I don't believe that individual soldiers would have remarked their vehicles with larger crosses unless 1)they had time and believe it would help them or 2) they were ordered to do so. Most of the remarking would have occured at a maintenance shop (they have the paint, brushes and spray guns). Given you have photos from Jan 44 with small crosses, I think you have an excellent foundation for the story.

That being said, it also depends on how accuratly you want to represent your ambulance. I can't remember what year your ambulance was manufactured, but if it was a '44 (or late '43), it would not be accurate to use the smaller crosses. If it is a '42 or '43, you could easily make the argument that it was never "upgraded" to the larger markings.

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 04:31
by WC_54
I agree with Peter. Depending upon date of manufacture would dictate which crosses you should have.

My Ambulance is done up for Air Corps MTO (15th in Amendola). While not completely accurate I chose version 3 of the crosses out of personal preference. Most of the Ambulance pictures I have seen from Amendola show version 2 of the Geneva Crosses.

I can also use my rig in ETO events and be the "proper" paint scheme.